Super afghan (sum)

AmirAl

Par AmirAl,
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AmirAl

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bonjour à tous!

est-ce que quelqu'un a la recette du super afghan (le "shit pate à modeler").

ce shit se fait avec l'herbe afghane ou c'est juste du shit couper avec quelque chose spécial?

voila merci de répondre et bonne aprés-midi :D

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Voici un copié-collé du thread d'OG (rip) sur le sujet - j'avais fait une selection de posts.

 

en résumé,

 

Consistence: une jolie ptite boule comme celle du thread "Mon shit maison" peut être transformée en black visqueux en étant travaillé aux doigts pendant assez longtemps.

 

Odeur-gout: c'est probable que le gout des hash de ce type dépende de facteurs comme les impuretés présentes, ou le temps et les conditions de séchage du skuff(difficile a reproduire si le skuff est entreposé 6 mois dans des peaux de chèvres enterrées), et dans certains cas l'ajout de graisses animales ou autres adulterants de ce type.

 

 

 

 

 

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moonstomper

The enzymes remain active within the trichome until it has been heated to ~50*C (which denatures the protein strucure) or it is completely dehydrated (they need to be solute to work), hash isn't alive but if it is moist (which it should be slightly) it still has some enzymic activity, this wont make the hash stronger, but is likely to breakdown compunds which make it taste worse.

 

The reason plants are dried slowly is to allow the enzymes to complete their work in the plant, if you dry a plant too quickly (or with heat), intermediate compounds aren't broken down by the enzymes and these give it a shitty grass flavour. Luch is right in some ways but is obviously just a bit stoned and can't explain it right

Pure THC may be the strongest (and for you BHO-vape-heads types therefore best) but it doesn't taste as nice and gives a less rounded stone. The other cannabinoids which are formed by enzymic action make it a nicer stone in my opinion and make it a better flavour.

 

Imported hash (as opposed to home-extracted) has a better flavour and stone because they allow the plant to dry slowly and are experienced in the right timings to get the greatest flavour and high (not neccesarily the highest strength, when you've got a few tonnes, concentration of THC isn't the most important consideration) Afghans smash their hash in boiling water (after a certain time sitting in goat skin bags) to kill the enzymes off and sterilise it as well as making it a delicious flavour and texture. the reason some people dont like imported hash (which is the worst hash produced in it's country of origin, obviously they keep the best for themselves)is because often it can be years old before it reachs the market in europe or even canada, by which time it is so old,dry and oxidised it isn't strong enough for high potency skunk smokers. but smoke it up their mountain in their chillum/narghile/hubbly and it's a different story.

 

stop blowing your own horn joecrowe, anyone with bubble bags, a few reads of the relevant forums and some common sense can make good bubble with a bit of practise. the afghan,morrocan and nepalese hash makers are the ones that deserve the praise for making better hash with their hands, and maybe a screen or large rock. I took some nylon monofilament screen with me to morroco last time and the makers were very sceptical, it produced so little compared to their coarser seives they didn't want it, i explained how it was purer but they said they don't care about a few plant fibres, it's still the same kif, thats what matters.

dont try and tell be about enzyme catalysis, i'm writing a very boring essay about it right now (hence the mini-distraction essay above)

so yeah, I prefer very good nepalese/afghan/morrocan, to jelly, to bubble, to BHO, to shitty import, to soapbar.

 

Sam_Skunkman

Moonstopper, have you ever been to Afghanistan? I have never seen "Afghans smash their hash in boiling water (after a certain time sitting in goat skin bags) to kill the enzymes off and sterilise it as well as making it a delicious flavour and texture." And I lived in Afghanistan.

 

moonstomper

Sorry i was over simplifying cos i was in a hurry to get back to my lovely essay.

I haven't been to afghanistan because it was being blown the US, though my dad lived there for a year in the 70s, i only got as far as the mountain range on the border with pakistan, where i met the right people who introduced me to some charming afghan refugees (the taliban didn't like their tribe) I had smoked enough pakistani hash by then and I wanted to try some proper afghan.

They stored the half dried tops in goat skin bags (like i store mine in brown paper) to dry it slowly. The hash is then pounded with a round rock in a giant couldron over a fire (like how i press mine over a hot plate at 60*C in a vice, or in the heel of my shoe) and water is added slowly (the weed starts very dry, and to replace steam). this hash was then pressed between two more rocks. they said that hash prepared this way never went off if kept sealed(i assumed heating it would sterilise it, and would certainly stop enzymic degradation), and gave me a sample which they said was many years old, which got me fuct, the next one made from the finest tops blew my fucking head off when smoked in their earth pipe

gentle heat doesn't damage the THC much, it just increases the rate of oxidation, so if it is only applied for a short time it is fine.

how did the afghans you met make their hash, or were you not invited to the factory?

 

JusrfortheRecord

You can actually beat, heat and turn western-style collected trichomes into something very much like 'trad' hash. Many users of ice-o-lators and pollinators don't do much with their thrichomes after they collect them - just dry them and maybe press them.

If you very gently heat and then work trichs, or heat them under pressure, you'll see the transformation start to take place.

 

For my money, the best hash is water-extracted trichs, worked and heated till they form a brittle but gently pliable slab. My idea of perfect texture is when you can snap pieces from the edge of slab at room temperature, leaving a 'flinty' edge (like a stone arrowhead).

 

Less working and heating makes a slab that crushes to powder when broken up. More heat and work makes black, sticky, malleable hash that's similar to a very good Afghani.

 

Also, I tend to heat and work lower grades of hash (with a slight 'green' content) much longer and harder, in order to get them into a bonding, homogenous mass - examples of hard-worked water-hash have fooled friends who were seriously into Afghani.

I have a feeling that the increased levels of impurity in lower/later grades of water hash contribute to this effect, especially when they've been broken down into the general mass by working.

 

Unless you're married to a local farmer's daughter, the one thing you can absolutely guarantee about imported hash is that it has a significant amount of impurity. If lucky, the impurity will only be in the form of cannabis foliage particles (as is the case with lower grade water hash).

 

The more pure resin (from a wide range of plants) that I sample, the more I suspect that many of the 'true' hash tastes and smells that people associate with famous types are actually a product of aduterants that are added in order to give the exported product an 'authentic' flavour.

It's dead suss that even the shittiest grade of Moroccan soap has that 'Rif Valley' smell to it. I think you can buy that scent in 10lt cans...

Pure, worked resin usually has a very subtle smell, even when burning.

 

Flynnie

Interesting thread, norimaki, I'd love to know more about various ways of processing trichs.

From what I've read, in Morocco, whole plants are cured for several months before being sieved, while in India/Nepal, handrubbing is practised, but I'm still not sure about the most common method in Pakistan/Afghanistan, is it sieving?

The Afghani process that moonstomper describes tallies with that in Howard Mark's Mr. Nice book, where flowers that have been buried in goatskin bags are heated and pounded in large cauldrons. I wonder whether that's the normal procedure?

I remember buying a lump of shit hash (very rubbery) in Peshawar, showed it to some Afghanis, who tut-tutted at who would sell me such rubbish and then started to smear it between their palms, ripping it as much as possible. This got me interested in how people actually treat their resin.

A mate on CW said he's smoked primo Afghani that was cured in a cave wrapped in burlap for 5 years, one-hitter stuff apparently.

Mriko told me about how in Pakistan they burn very fresh hash for quite a few seconds before crumbling it, I sometimes try this and the difference in effect is pretty big, much more blissed out feeling.

 

One more thing, I've found that when I handpress my dry sift (not super pure but will usually bind and turn black quite quickly) for the first half hour or so it's nice and putty, but then if I keep going it suddenly starts tearing off and sticking to my thumb, and the next day has a fine chalky consistency. Very odd, can anyone tell me why it goes from being putty to this?

 

kifit

Flynie....a little spit on your palm will help prevent the hash from sticking to your skin.

 

..or maybe you are woking it too long with hash that has probably a little too much non-THC veg matter in there?...I'd stop at putty stage or you risk the oils getting worked to the surface and onto your skin and then hash sticks to that...next day a good % of the oil is on your hands and the block of hash is dry as the result....???

 

and I don't think the buds themselves are buried in goat skins, the buds are rubbed over meshes and the rough kif is put into goat skins and buried or stored in a stone hut .....I think they bury it mostly for security reasons and of course partly because the cool pressing over 3 ~ 6 months improves the smoke (much like 3 or 6 month old bud smokes much smoother and stronger with a better high than the same bud that was dried and smoked within 3 weeks of harvest)

 

I always thought that the reason Middle Eastern hash smokers put lots of fire on their hash before smoking was to burn off the goat hairs, germs and other low combustible crap?...repeated flaming and working the hash in your palm takes the uppity-ness and wizzy speed effect away to some extent.

 

joecrowe

so...where's those photos? One of the secrets to good hash is using green buds that have been frozen fresh off the vine. These buds do not disintigrate when you make the hash. If you toss in bunk old shit that's been sitting around, you will get a grey lump of contamination when you are through, that's riddled with vegetable matter.

You can clearly see the mark of goodness on my hash, by observing the fact there is no contamination.

 

Sam_Skunkman

joecrowe,

How many years/decades you been making the worlds best hash? From frozen fresh off the vine buds?

I say that dry sift of equal purity is better hands down. Can you make dry sift of equal purity to your water hash? I can easy. As well as I say that undryed uncured resin collected from fresh plants is not as good as plants that have been dryed and cured first before resin collection wet or dry. The finest hash is not just purity, it is also the variety, and how the resins have been made and their terpenoid content. As well as the state of the raw materials used.

With water hash the purity is great if done well, but the terpenoid content has been reduced, and that reduces quality. No matter how carefull you make it you remove terpenoids.

Have you ever made dry sift of high quality? I have collected resin from the same clone, made from wet buds, and dry buds, with water sifting and with dry sift and the dry sift is better by far, if made very pure so nothing but resin heads.

The main advantage of the water sift is that the yield is much better and you can work in a hot humid environment, and it is faster.

But to me it is like saying that pure grain alcohol is better then a fine chablis just because it has more alcohol. It is the terpenoids that make all Cannabis different from each other even Cannabis with the same % of THC can be radically different in subjective potency, and effects because of the terpenoids.

The bottom line is that water hash could be better with all of the original terpenoids that were lost in the water process. Believe me.

 

mriko

I have been lucky to have the opportunity to smoke some home made hash from Sam-Skunkman, and I have to say that it is one of the strongest I have ever smoked. Not the strongest, but one of them. I have as well smoked traditionnal stuff stronger than his.

But I think you guys are talking about, and trying to compare two different things : Quantity and quality.

 

In the West, most hash producers associates quality with quantity,mean quantity of THC. Of course, the moreTHC the better, but why running after something "pure"? A strong product doesn't necessarily makes a good product in my opinion.

as PURE and STRONG they can make it, westerners will never be able to make as GOOD hash as than, for instances, some purple charas from Shebarghan, Chitral pounded garda or Kullu High Apple jungli. These are stuff who have hundreds and hundreds of years of History, the result of hundreds and hundreds of years of experiences, learnings and perfectioning. We are Faaaaaaar behind.

 

More, I don't hink that oxydisation and heat are bad for hash. TOO MUCH isnot good definitely. But it is thank to oxydisation and heat that numerous chemical reactions happens, and these makes the hash to reveal it's full potential, in terms of flavour and effect. Oxydisation is an important process in the transformation of cannabis resin into hash.

And more again, it is through heat that we can absorb cannabis compounds...

 

mriko

<>.

 

Benjewman, you totally wrong on this one actually. Hashish can be compared with wine actually, means it is a living product that evolves with time, a product that get BETTER with time. a product that NEEDS time to reveal it's full potential. in Himachal, for instance, people don't like that much freshly rubbed charas and prefer to let it age for about a year (can be kept much much longer time if stored properly) before smoking. Same in Afghanistan, resin can be packed in goatskin bags that are packed sometimes for years, letting to cure, before itgoes to pressing. And this gives TOP NOTCH stuff. This is the reason why Western hash will hardly ever reach the quality of hash from these coutnries. BEcause here, people want everything easy and fast, so who's gonna wait 3, 5 or 7 years before pressing his resin?

 

<

 

just a supposition but maybe your resin is too dry ? DON'T SPIT in your hand, better use some water, definitely.

 

<>

 

right, buds are sifted, then the resin is put in goat skin bags (check at the pic on the page before). It is not always buried, can be put stored in caellar as well. And the main reason I think is to cure it, as in cellar or inthe ground temps are much cooler than at ground level, so it allows a slow and nice curing of the resin, as it needs low temps for best curing.

 

for burning the hash, there are several reasons. Can be simply to turn it into powdery form and more easily mixable with tobacco. It happens as well when the charas is too fresh, and thus holding toom uch water. this allow water to evaporate and then improves the taste (freshly rubbed often taste poor). And yes, it makes definitely better tasting and stronger smoke.

In Himachal I was told by local friends that too fresh charas is not good for heart and brain as well (coudln't get more accurate info), so it's why they burn it. And in Afghanistan/Pakistan, it is said that smoking the MJ buds is bad for the mind as well. How strange... Could there be in Cannabis some unknown compounds or unnoticed synergy between some) that proves unhealthy, and that curing or heating could counteract this bad effect ? who knows ...

 

 

And, please, STOP TALKING ABOUT TRICHOMES !!! Trichomes is not hash, trichome is NOT resin. Trichomes produces the resin glands and these resin glands, when separated from the plant material and rightfully processed, then become hash. Bad hash going around here and we regularly have some made of dry an old resin mixed with large quantity trichomes, can see them with a good lens. And let me tell you it is SHIT ! TRICHOME ARE NOT WORTH SMOKING ! TRICHOME ARE NOT HASH !

 

 

I'm not specialist, but this enzyme stuff seem to be about THC and other cannabinoids synthesis. This is going on during life stage of the plants, and probably some times after it is cut down. But when the buds get sifted and the resin glands are all separated from their stalk, then it's not anymore about THC synthesis, but other chemical reaction that happens inside the resin head. Does enzymes plays a role here too ? Any research existing about what happens inside a resin head after 3 month, 6 month, 1 year, 2 years, 5 years ? any ?

 

At last, here's a process I've been told about, but wasnot lucky to witness with my own eyes, as I was not on the good side of Himalayas haha !

 

This is in Sikkim (between Nepal and Bhutan). There people tightly pack the buds (don't know if it's fresh or dry) into a large bambo stalk, which is then hung over the cooking place (fire) and then smoked for months, and even up to 3 or 5 years. This sikkim guy who told me about his had this comment about it "You can forget this Malana crap !" Will have to go and see by myself...

 

so what happens there, with this kind of processing ?

 

mriko

<>

 

sounds weird... BUDS stored in goatskin bags for drying ?

It is rather used to pack the SIEVED RESIN for curing, before pressing.

No comparison between goatskin bag and brown paper. Paper is absorbent.

The goatskin bag, when correctly made, is hermetically sealed, but still allow the product inside to "breath" and cure slowly.

 

<>

 

not really. adulterant are used only for mass increasing and/or binding. for stuff coming from South Asia, it is often ghee(clarified butter) or also animal fat. This gives distinct flavour.

The Afghan hash flavour as well can be influenced by the fact that the sieved resin is store ingoatskin bags. Cannabis resin happens to be very absorbent when it comes to perfumes and scent and definitely it takes some of the goat scent. But it should NOT be seen as a way to adulterate, or to give a flavor for export, or any othre weird things.

 

moonstomper

luch, can you stop banging on about enzymes, please, i study them, i get enough of it at uni.

THCA sythase is an enzyme that turns (unpsychotropic) precurser molecules into THCAcid, which again doesn't make you stoned. from then on there is no enzymic activity. The acid is then decarboxlyated into THC (which as you know does get you stoned)

this can be oxidised to form CBD and CBN which affect the way you get stoned by activating or blocking different cannabinoid receptors in your brain and CNS (CB1 and CB2)

the enzymes dont affect the high (ratio of THC/CBD/CBN) they simply produce the THCA in the first place.

DIfferent enzymes are present in the plant which make and break down other chemicals (including terpenes) which affect the flavour of the weed, this is why weed shouldn't be dried to quickly.

you dont activate enzymes by heating them, they are created as they are needed by the golgi complex and the endoplasmic reticulum inside every cell, their activity is controlled by mRNA constructs. if you heated them to 120*f (you can tell you dont know science, by antiquited units) it would denature the enzyme (not kill it) by unfolding the protein chain which disables the active site. cooking is nothing to do with enzymes but follows the same principles of denaturing (egg white goes white when the albumin is denatured)

not sure what the fuck you are on about here:

"I know it stop being active after its dried BUT in order to let the enzymes breakdown the thc to be able to vaporize at lower temperature due the lower weight, the enzymes need to be activated with heat(110f-120f) and moisture."

smaller THC molecules? smaller things don't neccesarily have a lower boiling point, and a smaller THC molecule wouldn't be THC, enzymes dont affect the high or any thing else to do with THC, they just make its precursor, and do other side reactions which affect terpenes and flavour.

 

stop all the bloody rice analogies as well, it's completely irrelevent, this is supposed to be a thread about imitating your favourite hash varieties, not enzymes and rice.

 

sorry, but i hoped you would shut up in your own time, thats why i didn't post this shit earlier.

for a load of stuff about how exciting enzymes can be PM me! (it will bore your tits off)

 

moonstomper

the strongest hash would be pure THC theoretically, the best way to do this would be chemical extraction (BHO etc.)

but it doesn't taste as good, bubble makes a nicer taste, and dry sift even better, and in my opinion hand rubbed is the best. this is due to the terpenes (and others) which contribute flavour and smell to the hash. the type of high is to do with the ratio of THC/CBD/CBN. this and the flavour are affected by how the hash is made and how long it is cured.

to get back to origional question, fermented food tastes like shit and brown rice is the devils work, ooops wrong question.

 

to imitate famous varieties of hash you need to imitate their production methods:

 

-a good morrocan/lebanese is hand sifted over fine cotton sheets (for crappy morrocan, use hesian sack), it is then either placed in a small plastic bag and steamed (or wettened in a small sack and put on hot ash, before plastic) then pressed by hand into 'carramello' which are little eggs of hash (usually 10g), these are usually dark and gooey. or the resin is placed between two heated plates and presed with a lot of pressure, this makes lighter more crumbly hash.

 

-nepalese/indian charas is hand rubbed off plants which entails lots of constant rubbing which gently and slowly heats and breaks the trichome HEADS (sorry pedant) which causes them to release oil to bind the hash together in a sticky mess, the constant heat and pressure creates the perfect amount of oxidation and terpene content for optimum flavour and high (in my opinion)

 

-different afghan tribes have different methods but they generally involve gentle heat and heavy smashing to make a squigy brown hash.

i for some reason wrote they stored the tops in goat skin in my last post, ooops, i meant they stored the tops in dark rooms and then the slightly damp resin in goatskin (cheers for the correction mriko) i was a bit pissed when writing and combined the two processes.

 

so to summerise, warm hand pressing will make a dark squigy hash (eg. charas), heavy pressing (with a vice etc.) will make a pale crumbly hash (eg lebanese/maroc pollen).

 

i like to make my jelly hash the consistancy of afghan, the oil helps it go all squishy so it needs less working to break the trichomes, mix one part honey oil (BHO, ISO or Hexane) with 6-8 parts kif (dry sift or bubble) 2 parts at a time and mix with a pair of razor blades on a tile, then press by hand (or on a 50-70*C hot plate under a pile of books for a slab)

 

mriko

<>

 

eeek ! no waaaaayyy ! pure THC would be nothing else than pure THC. Nothing to do with hash. It is like saying that the strongest opium is pure morphin.

 

Strongest hash is the one that has the most ideal combinations of THC and other cannabinoids, for the most perfect synergy ! By the way what does it means, "strongest hash" ? the trippiest one ? the stoniest one ? So many ways to be strong.

 

 

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  • 8 mois après ...
mriko

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le "sum" (poison en arabe si jene me trompe) est du shit fait au Maroc, mais avec des variétés importées. ça peut être de l'Afghane ou Pakistanaise (passée d'abord par les Pays-Bas), ou alors des variétés commerciales hollandaises.

Ca vaut pas un bon Marocain traditionnel...

 

Si tu veux faire du shit tout mou, pas besoinde t prendre la tête avec les peaux de chèvres, faut juste que la variété que tu utilise produise une résine suffisemment grasse. Certaines résines sont plus sèches que d'autres. Plus elle sera grasse, plus tu pourra te rapprocher (seulement rapprocher) de l'Afghan.

 

Irie !

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  • 1 an après ...
GBW

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a oui et pour repondre a la question ;-) je dirai qu'il est possible au moment de la fabrication qu'ils mettrent un peu d'huile de cannabis avant de mettre tout ca a la presse pour un shit maxigras :lol:

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